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The Blank Theory Interview
I was invited to take time out of my busy schedule to go see a local band that I had heard whisperings about, but never actually had the chance to see. The venue was new to me, too. A place called the Hideout, if I told you where it was, I'd have to kill you. (It's on Wabansia, near the corner of Elston and North near a Municipal motor pool) NO subconscious, STOP!! Don't tell themOh well. Great people and great beer, I recommend it. It's an interesting place to see shows. Lots of kitschy stuff on the walls like fish and old signs, but not in a cheesy, chain restaurant sort of way. Richard Milne from XRT was there; he seemed like a pretty down to earth guy and was having fun talking to the crowd. I was worried, because the description I had of the band didn't match with the type of music they play on WXRT, so I thought maybe I got it wrong. Not to worry, Blank Theory got up there and rocked the place enough to make those fish on the walls swim and shake the dust off of those antiques. Matthew Leone bobbed up and down with his bass like he was hooking in one of those fish. Nathan Leone sang and wailed on the ax, both with equal precision and Michael Foderaro played lead with both pro flair and reckless abandon. James Knight slapped out the pace at high speed on the skins. During the slower parts, he looked about to burst with all the untapped energy that he had to hold back. Shirley Hemphill watched matronly over the band as they kept the crowd gyrating. After their show, they told me to go backstage for the interview and they would join me in a minute. I walked back and stood in what was no bigger than a janitor's closet, with equipment surrounding me. "No, no, further backout the door and into the alley!" Matthew directed me. There we were standing out with some lawn chairs, a folding metal table in a freezing cold alley
CRC: I read about you in the New City article, and your website, which was very cool, had some info and background, but not too much
Nathan: It's all under construction right now, it's only been up for a couple weeks, so we're gonna do a little more work on that one.
CRC: You've got that picture of that chick that looks like something out of Heavy Metal or something
(We're all laughing)
Matthew: Yeah, we wanted a classy way to put a boob in there. (More laughter)
Nathan: Did you see the prison?
CRC: Yeah, what's that all about?
Nathan: We came up with this thing, like for people that piss us off for some other reasonwell, like when we play shows with other bands, we try to set up in as quick a time as possible, play for our allotted time and then take down as quick as possible. There's all these bands that don't do that. We played with this band that played for an hour and a half, they were only supposed to play for 40 minutes
CRC: They ate all your time up?
Nathan: Exactly, we went on at 1:30 on a Thursday night and there was like 2 people left, so it really pissed us off, that's the type of people that go into our jail
CRC: Was that that Geddy Lee/Rush looking dude with the mullet chop?
Matthew (laughing): No, no we pulled him off of mullet school.com. Who ever thought such a small group of people could provide such a huge amount of laughs?
Nathan: It's actually quite a big group. I was thinking of getting one myself.
CRC: Really now? I would reconsider that before you go down to Austin, you might get the wrong crowd.
Nathan (laughing): Yeah, that's true, maybe not.
CRC: Right. So where did you come up with the name Blank Theory?
Matthew: Right, it's sort of a concept of the band, like the global navet of ideals, sort of thing. It's kind of intense I guess.
Nathan: We've got all these theoriesReligious norms and ideals that people kill over
Matthew: and they force them on the young and the weak and they just brainwash people and nobody really knows for sure, so how can they insist that they're right. Yet, they're causing so much corruption and trouble in the world that we're supposed to be enjoying. Like that, all their theories are blank. There's no meaning, no truth, no substance to them, whatsoever.
CRC: Like a Jean Boudrillard/ Matrix type of thing, like the quotes from him in the movie, the whole simulation vs. real life thing?
Nathan: Yeah, whoever that is. (Laughing) Like the Matrix kind of deal.
CRC: So you guys are out on 4 Alarm records?
Nathan: No, no actually, well, me and him (Matthew) run that together. We just put the 4 Alarm name on the CD so that we could look professional and book shows without hassle. It's so hard to book shows when you first start out, you know, in the city it's hard enough, but out of town, especially.
CRC: So you have an EP out, though? Is that the CD with the 4 Alarm name on it?
Nathan: Yeah, that's the one. It's self-released. We didn't go through our distribution company with 4 Alarm for that one. We consigned some to stores and took the rest out on the road with us to help pay for gas and expenses.
Michael: Yeah, it's done its job really well, too.
CRC: Really? You've sold a lot then?
Michael: Oh yeah, definitely.
Matthew: Yeah, we must have sold like 500 or 600 of them. It's going pretty good. We've sold them mostly at shows, primarily in other cities. (Laughs)
CRC: Not going over too well in Chicago?
Matthew: No, seriously, we are doing okay. It's just that there's not too many venues with all ages shows and that's primarily our demographic, you know, so we either have the Metro or Fireside Bowl. We go to Toledo, St. Louis, or whatever and the kids always go to the shows, no matter who's there. They're not pretentious and they're getting right up in front, getting all involved.
CRC: You're playing an all ages show at the Metro soon? Is that the first time?
Nathan: Yeah, that show's coming up, but it's not the first time. We've played Metro and Double Door a few times. We've done pretty good there, sold a few CD's and gotten a good crowd. The CD is about a year old, maybe a little over, so it's run its course. We're hoping to record again soon.
James: Yeah, it's been over a year, we need to get some of our new music out.
CRC: You're planning on doing a full length LP now, right? Are you going to do that on your own, with 4 Alarm, or work with another label?
Nathan: We're actually talking to a few labels right now like MCA, Dreamworks and Arista. Arista's kind of an interesting story. About 10 months ago they got in touch with us and we talked with them a couple times. They brought us back to New York to play a showcase at CBGB's, which was just amazing. They put us up in a hotel, paid for food, gave us spending money and just treated us wonderfully
CRC: They really wined and dined you.
Nathan: Totally, but then about 4 months ago, they were preparing us an offer and then Claude Davis, who was working with us, got booted.
James: Completely run out of there.
Nathan: Which meant that they were going to dissolve their rock department. They put a freeze on all signing and everything and we were just kind of like "AagghWhat now?" I mean, its cool because they haven't abandoned us
Matthew: Yeah, they're still on our side and all. They're helping us shop around, but they can't control what happens to us with that. They're still burning off demos for us and getting big time managers and producers to come to our shows. So, that's why we're balking at recording our full length 'cause we want to see what happens with them.
CRC: So you're going to stick with the major label camp now?
Matthew: Yeah, we need the tour support and the money to record a good record. We're not looking for a million-dollar advance
Nathan: No, not at all.
Matthew: What we need is financial tour support, to be able to record a good record and get good distribution and promotion.
Nathan: Yeah, definitely, maybe some videos with cute girls
Matthew: Like a Spinal Tap thing, you know.
CRC: Very cool, best of luck with that, but you know the drummer always buys it somewhere down the line.
James: I always get the comparisons. I fear for my life.
CRC: I heard you also are into a lot of self-promotion booking your own shows, doing your own management?
Nathan and Matthew: Yeah, yeah, exactly.
James: We just show up and play. (Points to himself and Michael)
CRC: But, now you're telling me you want backup support here, some big promotion, which kind of conflicts with the whole DIY thing, what's up with that?
Michael: We are trying to cover most of it, but up to that very last point is too much, those final steps
Matthew: Yeah, well, our goal is to get up there, so we do all this work, we put posters up all over town, (pointing to Nathan) he steals e-mail names off of like, other web pages, lists
CRC: What's this now, you're buying lists? (Laughing)
Matthew (laughing): Oh, yeah, you want names, we got some people.
Nathan: Most of it is managerial stuff, like if you're talking to labels, you know if they call us, like lawyers and producers, then we have to take care of that. Part of our managerial role is booking the shows, we all promote 'em like crazy; we practice for them like crazy, but then also dealing with all the politics about being in a band.
Matthew: What we want to do DIY, is get ourselves big and get ourselves signed. We want to establish a huge fan base so that people can't turn away or deny it.
CRC: You're on the verge of that now, though. Being touted as the "next big thing" and all. That's a lot of pressure, how are you dealing with that?
Matthew: Yeah, it's a lot of pressure, but we want people to be talking.
James: You know, we're still going to do what we do, and we're never gonna freak out if we don't get signed. We'll just keep rolling, you know, look out here we come!
Michael: Oh yeah, I don't think anything's going to stop us.
Nathan: And once we get signed, we're still going to work as hard as we do now. Nothing will change that. We're going to be calling stores to make sure they get our CD, we're going to be promoting everything. This is what we want to do, indefinitely, so
CRC: Right now, though you all are hanging on to your day jobs?
(Laughing)
Matthew: Yeah, I don't know, I think if we have an income right now, it's about 5 bucks!
James: No shit, I think I'm the only one that brings in something passing for money.
Michael: They run their label, James is a truck driver and I temp, that's about it.
James: I got a mean van. (Points to the van parked a few feet further down the alley)
Blank Theory: It's our van!
CRC: It looks like some stuff is falling off of there, like it's seen better days.
Nathan: What are you talking about? We designed it that way!
James: It works well for us.
Michael: Looks can fool you, an Oldsmobile is like a speed bump for that thing.
CRC: Oh yeah, you do a little off-roading with it?
James: Hell yeah, it will get you out of a swamp.
Nathan: It's great, it's got us to New York three times. We can hack it in there.
Michael: It's like a party in there, get some girls, you know, it's the Abductor!
CRC: Real Love Machine, eh? Mattress in the back and everything?
Matthew: Aspiring to be maybe, we can't hold up our end of the bargain!
Michael: Well it's aspiring to be something, it wants to be the make-out mobile, but we let it down all the time.
CRC: It's hurtin', eh? It's saying, "Feed me!"
Nathan: "Get laid in me!" (Mass laughter)
CRC: Okay, sowhat are some major influences for you guys, bands, people and how did that help you starting out?
Nathan: Mike's actually the primary songwriter for the band, so
Michael: Yeah, umearly on it was Black Sabbath, Hendrix, Zeppelin, Stones, Beatles, etc., later on big influence was of course, Metallica, for that guy (points to James) it's a big Slayer thing. Dave Lombardo sits in behind that drum kit every so often.
Matthew: We also bring in some of the indie influences too, like Built to Spill and Idaho
Michael: Yeah, yeah, I like Idaho a lot. As far as listening, its anythingRadiohead, PJ Harvey, Portishead, Luscious Jackson, man, those are all girl bands I just named, aren't they? I like men, too, umJames Brown
Matthew: He likes men too. Ha ha!
Michael: Yeah, I mean everything. I don't want our music to be isolated to just one genre, either. I can't take it that way, there's just nothing interesting about redundancy. I want to stay diverse, and I think we do that. They bring a lot to the table, tooarrangements
Nathan: Posters!
Michael: Ha ha! Yeah, they make great posters!
Nathan: Yeah, but we have a lot of material that's just out there, that's just spacey, eclectic.
CRC: Yeah, I noticed some of that in the show, some of the slower stuff.
Michael: We've got a bit of that stuff. We try not to throw so much in live, you know, the energy level can get down. We're not ready for that, but we can't wait to get to recording some of it.
CRC: Are you going to balance it out with some of your faster stuff? I noticed you had a bit on stage there, where you started with a punch, then leveled it out and then brought it back up, speeding it up at the end there.
Nathan: We put a lot of thought into our set list.
Michael: Eventually, when we can bring those real slow, spacey songs in there, its going to sound like a roller coaster ride.
Nathan: The stuff we're talking about won't even hit the stage for a long time, it's like almost more pressure.
Michael: We recorded a couple of them on 4 track, but we're really waiting for that major label budget. (Laughing)
Matthew: MA-JOR LA-BEL! Hint hint.
Michael: Yeah, we're gonna get that 5th member on keyboards!
CRC: Maybe get a horns section in there, too?
Michael: NahSynth, strings violins and cellos. (Laughs) We can't wait to get exploited.
CRC: Well, for real though, you want to get experimental like that and really spread those wings?
Nathan: I think it's a matter of retaining the credibility and creativity at the same time.
Michael: Yeah, I think to pull that off at shows, you have to have some die-hard fans that will like that. Otherwise, it brings the energy way down.
Nathan: So we have to be kind of smart about it
CRC: Well, are you catering directly to your fans?
Matthew: Well, we need people to trust us first, we do need to go where we want to go.
Michael: That's exactly it.
Nathan: They're all our songs, we work them all in
Michael: Yeah, we like 'em all. We don't care which ones we play. You just need to have some strategy when you're arranging a set.
CRC: You guys don't play any covers do you? Or did you used to?
Michael: We've done minimal covers. We did Go-Go's for one compilation we were on, for the 4 Alarm compilation. We do a couple live covers, like the Stooge's "Search and Destroy."
Matthew: That's a great tune.
Nathan: Yeah, we love doing that one.
Michael: So, once in a while we'll pull out one. We don't have much else in the way of that, of covers.
(There was another off topic discussion into the van, which I couldn't follow all of off the tapeSomething about Christine devouring her victims. Massive Laughter.)
James: Is anyone else getting really cold out here?
BT: SoonNot reallyI'm too drunk to care.
CRC: You guys have a bit of fascination with movies and strange celebrities.
Michael: Yeah, we like Christopher Walken and Arnie Cunningham
Matthew: All the nerds, too.
Michael: Yeah, we like the Revenge of the Nerds movies. I want to get pictures of all these people and put them up on the website, like Crispin Glover, Shirley Hemphill
CRC: Explain the Shirley Hemphill thing, I saw her picture up on the stage.
James: We never play without her. We were playing one Metro show once, and she wasn't there, and it was, wellAnyway, we heard "Shirley's in the house!" and we started playing better. She makes it all right.
Nathan: Someone went home and got her for us.
James: Yeah we were scared without her.
Matthew: When we were out of town we played a couple shows without her, and it honestly just wasn't good. So we're kind of superstitious about it.
CRC: So, you just can't do it without her, huh?
Nathan: Exactly, we need Shirley.
Michael: Our savior.
James: I do it without her every night.
CRC: What, you aren't pulling that picture into the bathroom with you? (Laughter)
Matthew: We each have our own copy.
(Some gay inuendo and an uncomfortable silence)
Michael: Speaking of gigs and dick, there is one coming up
Nathan: Oh yeah. We're having that whole 4 Alarm Records showcase down in Austin with us, Monkey Paw (who's playing with us tonight), Pinehurst Kids, The Frogs and Chainsaw Kittens. The thing about this guy from the Chainsaw Kittens is that he's outrageously gay. He met this friend of ours, Skip, and they fell in love, I guess. So, we've decided to have a wedding at the end of their set, the Chainsaw Kittens set. It's become a whole big deal now, MTV coming to film it, Music.com and bunch of other TV people. So, it's going to be a blast, pretty hilarious, I think.
Matthew: It's all about the Blank Theory.
CRC: Hey sounds cool, you're all about diversity.
Nathan: It's interesting because MTV called us and they're doing a story on California, that whole legal issue. Some proposition to make gay marriages legal and they want to get different opinions of it. They called us about it and asked what kind of political statement are you trying to make, and we're just like, "Hey, two people love each other, we're just there for the happy occasion." Its not legal or anything, of course, we won't have a real priest there or anything. We just want to help them recognize it.
Matthew: We're trying to be funny and everyone else is being all serious about it.
CRC: Well, how serious are the two that are getting married, what do they have to say about it?
Nathan: Well, they're both good friends of mine and they like each other, they live in different cities and they're just kind of likeum
CRC: So, it's more of a gag event than anything?
Nathan: Yeah, but not like a gag event that could be offensive to the gay community. We're not out to offend anybody.
CRC: Ok, I understand.
Matthew: We didn't know about the whole movement and the proposition that was out there, we just want people to be happy.
CRC: Cool. What were your musical influences growing up and where did that take you?
Michael: Well, my mom was all about Motown and Prince, and stuff. My dad was Zeppelin, Beatles, Stones, etc. I had tastes of everything. They slapped headphones on me at an early age and almost pushed me into it. I wanted to play guitar, but I didn't want to be like in high school, just getting stoned and jamming out. I wanted to be the real thing, a guitar player. I wanted to stay diverse and I still do, I love everything, different things.
James: Yeah, we all have our different influences and different music going on. We throw everything into the pot and mix it in to the Theory.
Michael: It will always end up as Blank Theory, no matter what is thrown in.
James: I'm a big Tool fan. I'm into some heavier stuff.
Matthew: There's some stuff out there, like Chris Cornell, his solo stuff
Michael: The new Nine Inch Nails album
Nathan: I can't wait for the new Pumpkins album. I think Billy Corgan is a genius, he comes and goes on a pop level, but I think we like all his stuff.
James: There's not too much out there right now on the really popular level, like the whole Rap 'n Roll thing.
Nathan: Yeah, we're not too big fans of the Korns and Limp Bizkits and all
Matthew: It's just not interesting at all.
CRC: I understand that, I hear you. So, what do you think of the local scene? It seems like XRT is pushing more local stuff like this show for instance, and Q101 is doing that local band compilation that just came out. Where do you fit in?
Nathan: As far as the local scene, we've strayed from it and stayed completely independent. It's very cliquey and a lot of bands cling together and keep a tight group, which is cool. But the manner in which they go about it is very arrogant and exclusive and we don't really get into that.
Matthew: It's very pretentious and there's back-stabbing going on.
Nathan: We don't want to name any names, but there's just these situations where these bands group together and the outcasts fall by the wayside and get spit in the eye. We love to help every other band; we go to shows all the time, any time, anywhere. We want to help everyone, but some of these bands just want it on their terms, you know. They have their own group of friends and you're in or you're out.
James: We help them out and we want that in return.
CRC: You don't feel like you get that, that support?
Matthew: Certainly not. I mean there's a few bands that are cool, like Monkey Paw here, we help each other out, we play a lot of shows with them, promote and support each other to no end. Chevelle, another great band. They've been cool with us and we like them. Premium's another one, we've played some shows with them.
James: Hopes, that's another band.
Nathan: Lollypop Lovekills is a great band from Toledo. They're well known there and we swap shows and help each other out. It's been a great relationship back and forth.
CRC: You seem to have a big connection with Toledo I noticed. You've mentioned that a few times.
Nathan: Yeah, it's a great city, there's a couple that we really like. St Louis is another one.
Michael: Toledo has just 2 venues, and they're right up the street from each other. A good mass of people.
James: They're all in there it seems like
Nathan: We went down through St. Louis this time about a year ago, and we hit this all-ages club, it's called the Creepy Club. We were touring on our way down to Austin. Right away there was a mosh pit and they were really into it. We sold about 20 CDs that night and all the kids were so wonderful. We came through again a couple weeks ago and there was about 150 people there, and some of the kids knew the words from the CDs that they bought. They were super pumped, very loyal and energetic. We love those all-ages crowds.
CRC: Your (4 Alarm) label stable is amazing there, I've heard of The Frogs, who are legendary and The Pinehurst Kids and Chainsaw Kittens, how did you bring all these bands into the fold?
Nathan: Well I used to work over at Scratchy Records, which was owned by D'arcy and James of the Smashing Pumpkins and The Frogs and Chainsaw Kittens were both on that label at the time, so I was able to befriend them that way. As Scratchy went up and down, they all kind of left for one reason or another and we were able to pick them up. Pinehurst Kids were the first band we discovered, via CD. They were the first band we ever signed. We put out their first one and they were virtually unknown then back in Portland. It was amazing and the response was incredible and we put out their second one and just kept going. CMJ has been all over them and they've gained a little notoriety. So, yeah, it's been very cool to have them with us.
CRC: You're going down to SXSW (South by Southwest) with this bill and are gonna slay 'em down there? Sounds like a fun time.
Matthew: Yeah, it's going to be great.
CRC: Our organization tries to promote better and more rock oriented radio in Chicago. To us, it seems that coverage is almost nil and that rock is practically dead on the air. How do you feel about the state of the radio scene in Chicago?
Matthew: Commercial radio in this town, I hate to say it, is virtually corrupt. Anything you hear over commercial radio has essentially been paid for by the labels. These independent radio promotion companies get to them and broker deals. There's a lot of money and a lot of politics involved and its virtually impossible for a local band that's not represented by a major label to get air time on the radio. You could be a very successful indie band, like The Get Up Kids, for example, who have sold more than 20,000 records, gained tons of popularity. Vagrant is an indie label; they've managed to promote them very well. They toured like crazy and right now there's this whole emo movement that has cropped up. For an indie label, their success is phenomenal and they're having a great time, making a living and everything's greatThen you can go the major label route and sell like, 50-100, 1,000, hell, even 250,000 copies and be done. That's it, you're dropped.
James: Yeah, and they won't even treat you decently, like shit. Then it's over, bye-bye to your career!
CRC: Sure, like they'll half-assed promo the bands, then blame it all on you for not doing enough
Nathan: I don't know how much I want to get into this, but when I was over at Scratchy, we were a subsidiary for Mercury/Polygram. You can see very much where they prioritize bands and where they don't, and when they don't, its evil. One band is worthy of the ad, like at radio, the Programming Director wants to give them the ad, likes the song, but the label prioritizes another band, it says, "No don't give them the ad, give these other guys the ad." There's no integrity in that at all, obviously. If the band doesn't "earn" this single or "earn" their keep, they're done for. It's tough, in major label situations, it's very image oriented, its what's hip and what's "now." No integrity or respect whatsoever. I know your next question is "Then why do you want to be on a major?" Well, it's tough. It's a gamble that we feel we have to take. One of the reasons that we feel we want to build a grassroots thing, because we want fans to love us and our music. We need the machine to come in and bring us to the next level. We're not necessarily seeking it, we're full on building our own crowd and popularity, if someone wants to give us a lot of money to record a great record, then fine, great. We'll go for it. You have to realize that as an artist, well some people think its cool to be the starving artists. Really you need to find ways to sell your art. You have to find your ways around that. That's what we're trying to do is sell our art. We're looking at a business side of things, as well as an artistic side.
James: It's an interesting compromise. If we got on a major label, then we were dropped, you know hopefully we wouldNo, I knowWe're still gonna do this, no matter what. We still want to do this. A major label dropping us won't stop us. Say we get on to a major and sell 400 to 500,000 copies then get dropped, well we still would want to rely on those people that bought them to go out and get the next independently released one.
Nathan: So, we're up for it. We're doing this, touring like mad, sleeping in the van, we'll do what it takes.
James: Well it sucks, sleeping in the van. We have to turn the heater on sometimes in the middle of the night, but heyAnyway, we are all on the same page, all 4 of us.
CRC: Any last comments?
James: Look out here we come!
Nathan: We certainly don't mean to lambaste anyone or defame any other bands, we were just being honest.
James: No, not at all.
CRC: Any bands you think could use more attention; that people should be looking out for?
Nathan: Well, there's some indie bands out there, like At the Drive In, Chevelle.
James: Yeah, Chevelle, Luscious Jackson, too
Well, we wrapped it up, went back in and warmed up and drank some more. (The show was sponsored by Jim Beam.) One quick note: I had a really hard time telling the two twins' voices, Matthew and Nathan Leone, apart on the tape, so I might have credited one with another's speech, and vice versa, so on. Sorry about that guys.
-- Your friendly neighborhood Aesch
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